My Photo

Buy My CDs

« Puff the Magic Dragon | Main | Welcome Back, Cecilia! »

Monday, April 10, 2006

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d8341ccad453ef00d834268a4153ef

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Big Apple Blog Festival #36:

» Big Apple Blog Festival from Suitably Flip
The 36th Big Apple Blog Festival is underway at Harleys, Cars, Girls [Read More]

» Illegal Immigration: Mix it Up and Enforce the Damn Law from Atlas Shrugs
Illegal aliens state by state - run your mouse over the map for a state by state breakdown. Yes, we are a nation of immigrants, I myself am descended from immigrants, legal immigrantsLegal being the operative word. I don't [Read More]

» Blog Carnival index: Big Apple Blog Festival #36 from Blog Carnival
BIG APPLE BLOG FESTIVAL is now up at Harleys, Cars, Girls & Guitars! [Read More]

Comments

Peter

Thanks for the mention of my blog!

Buddha

Ugh. I have abandoned my blog without even meaning to do so. Life has generally gotten in the way; which is a good thing because my business is doing really well.

But, you know I still love you, you big queen.

ModFab

Nope, still a homophobe.

Shouting Thomas

Translation: "Homophobe" = anybody who displeases Mr. Fabulous.

Bill Lalor

No citizen journal? what gives?

Nick

Re: your question "for the gay boys": admittedly, sarcasm and putdowns aren't anybody's best tool to accomplish anything, so I'm not offering this as a grand-scale defense of communicating this way. However, if you really want an answer to your question, I think the profoundly un-level playing field makes a big difference here. In a political, legal, cultural, and institutional context of oppression and bigotry, heteronormative culturenot every straight person, obviously, not even by a long shot, but an innumerable lot of them, certainly, and the culture at large, without questionhas got the rights, the money, the acceptance, the track record of discrimination and violence, the divide-and-conquer election tactics, the stand-back-and-tsk posture durning a lethal epidemic, and the pleasure of having all of its own paradigms and desires treated constantly as "the norm." Under conditions like this, barbed rhetoric and bitter sarcasm register really differently if you're being kicked (again) while you're down (perpetually) vs. if you're kicking.

Construing the problem as simple tit-for-tat, apart from the enormous and ubiquitous contexts, would seem really artificial and spurious, wouldn't it? Just my 2.

Shouting Thomas

Nick,

Mr. Modern Fabulosity went out to the dinner and theater in New York City, by my count, about 12 times in the last week.

That's the sort of oppression most folks would love to experience.

As for the rest of your recitation of PC cant, it is bullshit. Let me emphasize that it is pure self-serving bullshit.

Nick

Really? I thought it was a fairly even-handed statement of fact, without a whole lot of vitriol attached. One group can get married, the other not. One grou's very existence is a political issue, the other not. Individuals in both groups are harmed, fired, and murdered all the time for any number of reasons, but in the straight/gay comparison, only gay people are liable to have this happen because of who they are.

You asked a question, I gave you an answer. This is what it feels like from the other side. Whether you really, sincerely wanted to hear an honestly intended answer to your question is pretty debatable, I would say. (I wonder if there is anything I could say that wouldn't sound to you like "PC cant." I also wonder how any of this could possibly be self-serving, seeing as I was pretty certain I was walking into an attack.)

And btw: Mr. ModFab works in theater and saw at least most, if not all of those plays for free. Don't rush to judge so quickly.

Shouting Thomas

OK, since I've lived and worked in San Francisco and New York City for 35 years, I'll give you the succinct, obvious answer.

A life of picking up men in gay bars is going to, ultimately, expose one to the risk of assault and murder, particularly when S&M, handcuffing, serious drug use and nooses are involved. Goes with the turf.

This is not the fault of straight men. It is gay men who threaten one another with violence.

Nick

Then, in the spirit of your initial question, I'll let you know how it feels to read a comment like that. When every statistic on the book says that almost NO gay people die for the reasons you're implying, when I would assume it's common knowledge (and statistically verified) that hate crimes are overwhelmingly committed by straight homophobes who hate gay people... I don't know, and I don't know any gay person who DOES know, how to react to a willful denial of facts.

The fact that hate crimes occur does not mean that I, or any gay person I know, thinks that all straight people are homophobes. That a small minority of gay people are into S&M, etc., does not explain to me why people who simply don't know many gay people think that this is the norm --- just like, despite all the statistics and media images of straight men who beat or rape women, I don't assume that these men are paragons of all "straight men." Why are you making this willful stereotype of "gay culture" stand in for all gay people? Why not respond to people you actually know and statistics that actually exist, or why not confess that you might not know what you're talking about, instead of phantasms that scare you or piss you off?

What can you say in the face of the fact that, statistically and empirically, it simply isn't true that violence against gays and lesbians arrives from the sources you're citing, almost ever?

Shouting Thomas

You're lying, that's what I say.

The statistics I've read suggest that less than 5 murders per year can be attributed to straight on gay violence in the U.S.

Gay men have been known to torture and murder straight men, although the numbers are also very small.

You've been through the mill of PC indoctrination in a U.S. college.

You brain is full of manufactured nonsense.

Shouting Thomas

For the sake of my readers who might be following this debate, I visited the FBI site for hate crime statistics for 2000: For that year, the FBI records 1,299 hate crimes based on sexual orientation, ethnicity, religious affiliation, etc.

The 1,299 incidents cited take in everything from murder, to assault to crimes against property. The FBI recognized only 19 murders in the entire year that could be classified as hate crimes.

Obviously, only a fraction of these hate crimes involved sexual orientation.

There is no epidemic of violence against gays. These incidents of bias related crimes are lamentable and tragic, but they in no way indicate a wave of violence against gays by straights.

And, now I’m putting this debate to rest. My weblog is not intended to be a place for this sort of debate.

Mark Vane

Hi, Added a new value add to my blog this weekend - a news widget from www.widgetmate.com. I always wanted to show latest news for my keywords in my sidebar. It was very easy with this widget. Just a small copy paste and it was done. Great indeed.

Juno888

What can you say in the face of the fact that, statistically and empirically, it simply isn't true that violence against gays and lesbians arrives from the sources you're citing, almost ever?

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

The Band


YouTube


December 2009

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
    1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31    

Feeds





  • Powered by FeedBlitz